Victoria 5

[SaintFox]

I will wait and see if or when V5 is fully usable in Poser. If not I think I skip her. And as I am just exploring PoserPro 2012 with the new material options and far better IDL I begin to (re)discover other figures and how good and natural they look. I even saw people asking for where to get Miki 1 (!) because they want to use her with SSS and all the new bells and whistles. So if this had been a multiple choice poll I would have well ticked "I will switch to other figures".

I am curious what people will decide for and hope that many other SynfulMindz members fill in this poll - good idea to create it!!

[Heiko]

Just to put in my dime:

I started out on Poser 4 ages ago and have been going Poser straight up until Poser 6, then tried D|S, mixed the 2 up for a bit, but then went D|S mostly, bought Poser 7 and 8 just for the sake of it, dug up P8 about 6 or 7 months ago and gave it a test and found it, well, feeling 'primitive' compared to D|S3A (not saying it is, it just felt to me that way).

So I was happy with D|S3A.

Then came D|S4 and I was like 'what?' - I felt weird, was not really obvious aside from the Genesis/Metadata side so I stuck with D|S3A.

But(!) upon further looking at Genesis I've come to like the concept quite a bit: a basic figure that can be shaped in a number of (quite extreme) ways with clothing suited for all of them, so yes, you can have you Genesis man easily in drag or your Genesis woman easily in a butch's outfit.

Plus, with the rather limited range of items out for Genesis (at this point in time) I tend to not get lost in the options my library is offering for V3 and V4.

With that said here are a few things to consider: for a long time now there has been that rift between Poser and D|S which shows exceptional well here on synfulmindz.com: many items offered have come with poser material options or are pure poser material collections.

Which makes them quite unsuitable for D|S or only of limited use - I mean for me it's still perfectly fine to use the object in D|S and come up with my own D|S shader but having an build-in D|S shader option would be nice...

Right now, this is very much like telling D|S users 'No, we don't want you'.

Something that Smith Micro has already done with Miki 3.

So, I don't see any reason why DAZ shouldn't go a similar way saying 'well, we put our own thing - Genesis - out there and it would be better to use it in D|S(4) but it may be possible to use it elsewhere too... maybe... sorta...' and that's just what they've done with Genesis.

Now, where people seem to get things wrong (at least from my point of view) is V5:

V5 is not a new model, it's (as DAZ puts it) the Genesis posterboy, well, -girl.

Which means it's not much different than any of the character(morphs) created by some artists to perfectly suit their own clothing designs e.g. Powergirl for Powerage, PrettyIV for Pretty3D, etc.

So, IF you want to use V5 it comes down to the question whether you want to be able to use Genesis in the first place.

Which takes us round in a nice circle i.e. do you want to use/support D|S?

Frankly, I don't think DAZ will really care whether you're saying yes or no to that question as their 'old gal' V4 is obviously well supported (and will be in the future as was already confirmed here) so she will keep on selling for them.

What content creators should consider though is the user because they will care about whether you support... well, not quite V5 but Genesis and/or D|S.

For 2 reasons:

1. D|S will always be free. So any 'noob' starting in this here our field of injterest is rather likely to start off on D|S and not Poser. Which means that any 'not compatible with D|S' will turn off a potential buyer from your content.

2. What after V4? This is looking into a (I would assume far) future but at some point in time V4 will be dropped... as far as V3 or V2 are dropped.

DAZ still offers them, and content is still available (even created) for them but many a people will considered them outdated compared to newer models.

And just as with V3 and V2 time will pass on for V4 - Don't get me wrong, I still love V3 and use her ever so often with my rather well stocked V3 library but certain aspects of progress are just too hard to pass up...

So, what will happen when V4 has been found 'lacking'?

What will you support then? What will you use then? - Too be honest I would assume that many a people will be smelling the sweet smell of 'rot' long before V4's 'end'. But the question remains: What will be your model of choice?

Frankly, I wouldn't put a bet on any of the non-DAZ figures out now, look at how limited the support for Poser's Miki3 is.

We could either be looking at a complete splintering with everybody using one of the many models available out there (which will be a support nightmare: 'Right, 7.3% of all Poser users are working with a model called 'Suzy Sexbomb' made by OompaOompa, Inc. - should we make content for that or for 'Babs Boobs' from DingDong, PLC which had 7.5% of all Poser user using her last month but only 6.9 this month?'),
or people falling again in line with whatever DAZ is offering as they are counting on DAZ's history,
or the rise of a new superstar model to eclipse all other models - think Victoria in ancient Poser days only now she is called 'Monica Megajuggs' by Littleknownhouse, Inc. and she is just the bestest figure ever down to perfect genitals and pores and bending and whatnot.

So, before you are saying 'DAZ has shot themselves in the knee with Genesis' ask yourself if you ain't shooting yourselves in the head with not supporting D|S/Genesis? I mean heck, if you are making V4 content, what is so wrong with going the extra mile of also make that same content for Genesis? That's what we are already seeing over at DAZ with character combo packs for both Gn and V4.

And guess what: if you create a pose pack for V4 AND make those very same poses also available for Gn WITH all the hand and feet fuckups resolved, wow, ya bet that people will like your offer.

Having said all that, I'll answer the very basic question that Nemain and Angus were asking:

The release of V5 doesn't mean much to me: I have a fair number of addons for Gn that allow me to make my own characters.

The geo-grafted genitalia would be nice but at this time is a) not released and b) only comes with the V5 Pro bundle, and sadly there's so much uninteresting stuff in that bundle that I can't be bothered to buy it, instead I'll rather buy some Gn content than V5 content.

Also, Gn genitalia is already available from another source though I don't know how well the 2 stack up against each other...

So, at this point in time I'd rather go V4 and Gn than V5 unless I can't resist all the 'this off' and 'that payback' any PC member will get until the end of the month and cough up the money just for the sake of burning it... ;-)

[Nemain]

Of course DAZ doesn't care what we write here, never thought they will.
The majority of our customers are Poser users, those who use DS are happy with our products, even when they have to adjust the
materials.
I don't mind, if any of our vendors want to create stuff for Genesis, but Angus and I just won't support he/she/it and so far we didn't receive
any requests for Genesis products.
We will create items for V5 sooner or later, but we will use her in Poser not DS then.
Noone can force us to work with a program we just don't like, we gave DS a chance, but it just doesn't fit into our workflow.

There are other figures on the market, who look promising, but lack of support, and we will be expanding our product array to some of them as well.
Mariko by DTG Studios was just the beginning.
And I am sure, there will be coming new figures soon, this is their chance to conquer runtimes

Until then we continue to create shiny & synful stuff for Victoria 4.

[SaintFox]

I think I get your point, Heiko, especially about vendors not creating things for DS. The main problems to me are: I do not want to tell my customers that they need anything beside my product and the software (and, if suitable, a specific figure). Selling something with "you need Software XY, Figure ABC, light-add on Soandso and material addon Thisandthat" is selling with a no. If I pay for a software I expect it to have everything included to make things look like desired by me -what means: Like promised by the promotional images.
In other words: I expect to be able to take any figure or prop (or create one) and create the perfect light and surface on my own without having to buy anything else (well - beside a paint program or a modeller maybe, but I think you get my point). Everything that can technically be used in the render-program should be technically included: If IBL is supported I should be able to set it up, if reflections can be rendered I should be able to set up a reflecting material on my own and so on. Don't take these examples literally, I am not talking about DS or any specific software.

My personal major point is and was always: If I want to create for an app I don't want to buy an expensive extra to make my creations work - because in fact an application like Poser and DS is pushed by the content you can use in it. I can't tell anymore how often people asked me if I can make my dynamic products available in DS. Sorry, I can't - because there is nothing included in DS to create dynamic items.

If it comes to supporting figures used in Poser and/or DAZ my point may be different from others: I don't see any benefit in creating an endless row of characters and supporting items for one and the same figure as there are so many competiting items. In the long run I found that I have more success with add-ons for badly supported figures as people have fewer choice - or, to say it the simple way: There are so many skimpy dresses for V4 available and no one needs them all. On the other hand each female figure seems to need a skimpy dress. Create one for a niche figure and you will definitly sell it as far as it has a decent quality. Not as many at once but sooner or later almost every user of the niche figure will come to your shop and pick it up.

If DAZ is interested in this discussion or not is indeed questionable. I wouldn't care about it at all because in the long run companies follow the money. If there are enough DS users who pick up V5 to make DAZ satisfied there may be no further effort to make her work perfectly in Poser or other apps. If not things will be thought over. As said: I'll wait and see.

[Nemain]

Well said, SaintFox.

[masterchief]

I picked up DS4A to work with Genesis and V5 but I have no intention of giving up on V4 and her sisters. Like everyone else I have way to much invested to turn my back on her. Likewise I will not turn my back on Poser, it just seems far easier to use than the new DS4A. But I am giving it a chance, I would really like to see an V5 that is 100% compatable with Poser, but I don't see it happening. I wish that both DAZ and Smith Micro would sit down and work this out because the only ones suffering from this is, us the consumers. I would love to see the vendors here support V5 but I will understand if you choose not to.

[lzy724]

I'll be sticking with good old v4.  Since others are working on weight maps and what not, I will go with the tons of characters I have for her and all the clothes.  I have ds3A.  I just dont like it, I've tried it. I hate the lights, and the UI.  *shrug*  I guess it basically comes down to each his own. I started with poser and find it easy to use and understandable. I open DS and Im like...  what??

To me, I just dont find V5 attractive. at all.  She is too homely for my tastes, her head seems too big for her body and her body, well I find that manly.  *shrug*

[Magick_Lady]

I'll wait and see , maybe they eventually make V5 compatible for daz 3.X , have daz 4 but cant figure it out yet how it works LOL , i love daz 3.x

[RavynGyrl]

We could either be looking at a complete splintering with everybody using one of the many models available out there (which will be a support nightmare: 'Right, 7.3% of all Poser users are working with a model called 'Suzy Sexbomb' made by OompaOompa, Inc. - should we make content for that or for 'Babs Boobs' from DingDong, PLC which had 7.5% of all Poser user using her last month but only 6.9 this month?'),
or people falling again in line with whatever DAZ is offering as they are counting on DAZ's history,
or the rise of a new superstar model to eclipse all other models - think Victoria in ancient Poser days only now she is called 'Monica Megajuggs' by Littleknownhouse, Inc. and she is just the bestest figure ever down to perfect genitals and pores and bending and whatnot.

I think people are only going to fall back in line with Daz's figures if Daz goes back to creating them for both Poser and DS. And I don't mean like the current "export from DS to Poser" way. I mean completely native to both programs, like V4 and earlier. If they continue with creating figures solely for their application, then we will definitely see a splintering in the market and new figures from 3rd parties, as well as older figures brought to to new life with the new tech. I will buy a new (or even old) 3rd party figure that works completely in Poser before I buy any figure attached to a program I don't know. And I know I'm not the only one.
If this is the start of Daz going their own way in the market, then so be it. Their figures do not have to continue to be the only dominant figures...and won't be if they drop Poser support for their newer figures.

[mysticx]

I started Poser-style rendering with Daz studio 2.x (I forgot the version number, meh  ), and Victoria 3, shortly after that D|S 4 and V4/A4 came out (I really like the anime-style and D|S was cheaper), i also got D|S4 on an upgrade offer and some Genesis stuff.

Genesis is a fantastic figure, morphable into anything and clothes follow along with the morphs (With the plugin for it, anyway), joints bend in a more natural-looking manner too, but D|S4 feels like a beta-version ATM, it crashes very often, it recalculates clothes fitting at EVERY change, make a genesis with a mask on and it recalculates when i bend his/her/its right index finger, and that makes working with D|S4 a very cumbersome affair...

That coupled with very little Genesis-native content being available (Morph following has its failings, like not taking over adjustment morphs for skirts, hair and such) makes it a "Wait and see"-deal for me, content makers seem anything but eager to take the plunge, so why should i as consumer sink even more money into it?

[Eganko]

I am not to DAZ though I have it.
As V5 is not well supported for Poser I will stay with V4 and the other figures.